Let’s just say that we’re in something of a golden age for podcasting. It’s a format that has been around for a long time, but now more than ever it is showcasing its popularity and influence over society as a form of digital media.
Of all the clients that come to me, 9/10 want a podcast editing. I edit a lot of podcasts.
Podcasts are everywhere, everyone is making one and they’re fitting into every niche and corner you can imagine. They platform celebrities, voice opinions and feed expert insights right through your ear and into your brain. They are entirely accessible through Spotify and YouTube.
2024 provided a watershed moment for just how popular they are. They became seemingly integral to the outcomes of the US presidential election.
When a format is so widely influential and easily accessible, having a podcast is an absolute no-brainer, should you want to have your own personal brand and share your professional insights. They represent your voice in the truest sense, and give you a platform to talk about your own expertise while also showcasing your personality.
Better still, it’s a way for people to hear you on the go; during work, on the bus or at a quiet moment of the day.
The objective of this blog is to explain what makes a podcast work so well, and how these insights can help anyone in making their own podcast that starts on firm ground for success.
I’ll go through my opinion on why it’s so popular, look at the top-level podcasts existing right now, and then break that down into what considerations can make your podcast stand-out amongst the infinite number of others competing right now.
Why Is Podcasting the Go-to?
The landscape for news and entertainment has changed dramatically.
I was born in 1999. I have lived through three decades and two centuries (fairly impressive if I say so myself). In that time period, I can think of two key historical events and the drastically different ways in which those events were narrated to the public: 9/11 and the death of Queen Elizabeth II.
For the first event, all news really came from one place, and that was the key news outlets on TV. To keep up to date as the event was unfolding, you had to be near a TV that was broadcasting the news. Text messages and calls were able to spread information, but the reality was it all stemmed from one source, that being the news outlets.
The following day newspapers would provide the summary. There were plenty to choose from, but this all to say news generally came from a few sources by limited methods.
Compare that with the Queen’s death in 2022, 21 years after 9/11. The world basically found out the minute their phone buzzed. In a matter of minutes, millions if not billions of people around the world knew immediately that the Queen had died.
To keep up to date, all you needed to do was check your phone for updates, using a news app or social media.
Not only were you able to get the news immediately as it was happening, you were able to get the opinions and responses from people you were following, influential figures and basically anybody. Conversations resulted from this event and they were everywhere to be seen.
Bringing it to the core point, in the last 20 years, news and voices have become unbelievably more accessible and therefore valued. The rise of influencer culture can tell you that you can now get famous from your own bedroom. We can easily find any voice we want and can receive both our news and understanding of the news at the tap of a screen.
This is what we’ve always wanted really, so it’s easy to see why this was the natural direction when social media became more and more popular along with the rise of the smart phone.
Podcasts blend those voices with conversational formats that are easy to digest. You don’t even need to really interact with your phone other than to press play. What podcasts provide are those voices people are looking for giving their opinions. The experts we know on certain topics can both provide their stats and discuss them, sometimes entering into debate about their validity or meaning behind them.
The break a barrier of professionalism, removing any sense that what is being said is scripted or closely following a company agenda. Of course, you can’t remove those aspects entirely, but this is the closest we can get to people freely chatting. People listen to that and they enjoy listening to that.
What’s more, and I’ve already mentioned a lot, is that accessing this requires the least amount of effort. Podcasts can be consumed anywhere at anytime. People listen to them at the gym, during walks, people even listen to them as they go to sleep.
In a world where our attention seems to be pulled in every direction, podcasts have this magical ability to not require our attention at all.
Which invites another point as to why they have become so popular. They are such a passive form that means there’s so much more to them than just the content that’s being delivered. This is integral when podcasts promote a personal brand, and is something I will address later.
Where Have Podcasts Succeeded
Here are a few case-studies that showcase where podcasts have worked best: Joe Rogan, Diary of a CEO and That Peter Crouch Podcast. To my mind there are three formats of podcast, these examples best showcase successful iterations of those formats. The two key formats are formal interview and casual conversation, between them sits directed discussion. For the sake of logical and cohesive writing, let’s start with directed discussion.
Joe Rogan fits the middle form of directed discussion. The podcasts invite guests typically with some sort of agenda in-mind, and there’s a generalised objective to educate the audience. Specific and specialised topics are discussed and facts/data are given and discussed, but the host also makes it their duty to bring out a conversational tone with the guest in question.
This is done various extents depending on who is on, from celebrities to subject experts. Regardless, Joe Rogan positions himself the same throughout, someone out of the know who is curious for the information, and wants to understand it for himself (as a result, his generalised audience).
In doing this, audiences get that conversational tone they’re seeking, however they are also able to understand the guest in a different, perhaps more unusual light.
The best example in the past has been when Elon Musk first came on, and the image of him smoking a joint became a viral moment on the internet. It was funny enough to become a meme, but people enjoyed the idea of seeing Elon Musk past the (then) founder of Tesla and SpaceX. There was a new dimension added to him and allowed audiences to understand him at a different level.
This is what intrigues people. There’s an appetite to see figures and experts as a more human-like figure - it sounds obvious, but a good podcast is able to do that. This is what makes Joe Rogan’s podcast so successful.
Obviously the recent Trump podcast needs to be mentioned. It’s success is largely attributed to the vehement opinion on the figure anyway. Regardless of stance on the man, seeing him in a conversation was interesting when most had only seen him in directed interviews and public speeches. It was like the podcast was able to lift the veil somewhat.
To me, it was a refreshing reminder that the man, despite having an angry character on the news, is really an old man. It felt reminiscent of those old people at the pub who can talk and talk and you just listen to.
Regardless of opinion, it’s interesting to see characters like this in such a light. It’s different, and no doubt this seemingly natural display swung more than a few voters in their ultimate decision. I’ll move to the directed interview podcast before delving into any politics. This isn’t that space.
Diary of a CEO is the best example of a successful podcast taking the form of a directed interview. This podcast certainly takes the award for most professional looking podcast. Beyond just interviewing guests over a table, it has been a trailblazer in introducing the “podcast trailer.”
These are 90-second clips at the start that invite intrigue, but also sum-up the podcast, who the guest is and give a small sales pitch as to why this podcast is so valuable. Anthony Smith should be commended for his expertise in crafting this little narratives and the cinematic style they take.
The podcast is sum has little difference to Joe Rogan’s, but is much more based on education and moves almost entirely away from that conversational tone. However, the objective of revealing a different side to the character is still there, and is best evident in the podcasts with Maisie Williams or Simon Cowell.
The objective of these podcasts is less to showcase that different side someone, but more in what does the path to success look like? What difficulties do people face and how can mindset and work-ethic inform that path to success?
Where guests are more experts as opposed to celebrities, they are pressed on the facts and the stories that came behind them. They elicit emotions, but in a much more formal way. While seeking to elicit facts, it still wants to focus on that relatability to people, connecting with them on similar issues or problems faced in the past.
The audience are generally young-adults, ambitious and looking to succeed in some aspect of their life, whether that be living more comfortably, having better relationships or running a business like the man Stephen Bartlett himself. As a direct format, this works best for that audience because it provides answers and lays out roadmaps for them from certified experts and people who, in the public eye, are seen to have succeeded.
The final format is entirely conversational, with that Peter Crouch Podcast being the best example. There’s an element of education in this format, but more than anything this is the format that best emulates what we enjoy most; people chatting, laughing, sharing opinions and stories we’ve always had some interest in.
That Peter Crouch podcast is specific in it’s niche, which is discussions on topics related to the football landscape. Living in England, it’s immediately clear why this is such a success given that Peter Crouch is something of a football icon the last two decades and football is culturally massive.
However, it’s Peter’s charisma and chemistry with co-hosts and guests that lead the way and make this such an attractive format. As an audience, we grow familiar with the characters chatting and the subjects are so trivial that it almost emulates those moments of being in a pub. It’s accessible by its comfort and familiarity.
While the charisma and conversation lead the way, it also provides a function of motivating opinion. Peter Crouch, as a professional footballer, is a certified thought-leader on all things football and so his insights have great authority, and audiences will naturally flock to him for opinion.
But it’s not necessarily opinion that matters as much as how much what is being said aligns with the audience. People like their thoughts and opinions to be validated, or challenged as it informs their own conversations on matters being discussed. This podcast format provides that for audiences. Perhaps there’s a risk of forming an echo-chamber with these, but that might be looking into it a little too much.
The icing on the cake for these podcasts is that the guests that do get invited on these shows have stories that people want to hear. I think specifically of guest earlier this year, Neil Warnock. As a manager with legendary status and who is known for his great character, it is obvious that there will be a wealth of stories people will have speculated on in the past.
Specifically, we’re talking about dressing room stories, relationships with players and what went on behind the scenes. This is the gossip people long for in daily life, they fulfil our curiosities but also our desire to understand people’s relationships with each other. In this way, it becomes a much more light-hearted form of journalism.
Far from giving facts and educating, conversational podcasts are much more about entertainment and covering trivial topics. Things we are able to laugh about and add levity to days.
Podcasts like this also invite fan discussion, with some going live to allow fans to engage with comments sections and the like. They find success in their ability to feel easy to engage with, they are the purest form of what makes a podcast so attractive.
How Can a Good Podcast be Started Then?
I edit podcasts all the time, from companies starting out to top level podcasts at giant organisations. I’ve seen what works and what doesn’t.
When I’m asked how to start, I say the same thing: Get a microphone, a computer with something to record onto, and then have a voice. It’s almost as easy to listen to as it is to make one.
But here’s what I’ve seen makes a great base for a podcast that lasts and generates a large, loyal audience.
Underlying any good podcast is one question, “what value does your podcast provide?”
Put a pin in it, but keep it in mind.
First things first is to outline a few things, the objective, the audience, level of formality and who is going on? Let’s break it down:
Your objective should answer one question, what do the audience walk away with? Typically the answer will be knowledge, insights or a way of thinking. On the surface yes that works and having that kind of objective will give the podcast substance and direction.
But obviously if your podcast just disseminates information, data and opinion, it risks easily falling into obscurity when the next podcast comes along doing the same thing.
As a piece of marketing content, it’s better to look at the objective of how this will be represent you / the company you are speaking for. How do you want your audience to perceive you beyond just someone who just knows useful information.
The character and persona you portray will serve as the backbone to your podcast. It determines how your audience will see you, and ultimately define the relationship they will have with the podcast. In my experience, audiences would much rather engage with a podcast with fronted by an entertaining and charismatic persona than one that solely just gives out facts and stats.
Now, looking to the examples I give, there is an unfair advantage that these figures are media-trained and regulars to TV. That just means they’re more educated at entertainment, something anybody is able to do.
Yes, this is something that needs to be nurtured and builds over time; the more you podcast, the more your persona comes out. However, it’s also something that can be helped massively when you’re in your most relaxed state. Especially when guests are involved, or your cohosting, I always encourage a small warm-up period to chat about anything, maybe some warmup questions. This helps establish rapport with your subject, but also means you come into recording with a bit of flow.
For firsts guests, it’s always best to bring in people you have the best pre-established relationship with, not only so you can produce the most natural conversation, but you can also remind yourself on review of what your most relaxed persona looks and feels like when recording.
In knowing this objective, you’ll be able to tailor your production in a specific way that brings out the best version of yourself, meaning that podcasting itself becomes a much easier exercise and therefore less-so a chore at tougher times.
Next is audience, what demographic are you targeting? When it comes to a podcast relating to a company, your audience may already be established. However, I would always encourage you to begin by targeting as niche as is possible and working from there.
As popular as podcasts are, their long format doesn’t lend them to being easily discoverable. That being said, when people enjoy a podcast they prove to be more loyal to that specific content. When this is the case, one loyal customer is much better than hundreds who forget.
Knowing that is useful, as it then becomes easier to build up and expand as your content picks up momentum.
If you’re building a podcast and are expecting an immediate large fanbase, you will be set up to be disappointed.
Try in the beginning, to be as niche as possible.
When objective and audience are established, level of formality will naturally follow.
Go back to the three examples in the previous chapter, are you looking to be a more education-focused podcast, or are you looking to provide conversational and light entertainment? Or are you looking for something in-between?
This determines the formality, and in one case you may think this just determines your questions and how you interact with your guest, but also think about how you are physically interacting with the person you are in conversation with.
Many podcasts take place digitally, over online phone call or through an application like Riverside. However, when it comes to physical recording, which I recommend above all, this level of formality can bleed into the space you create for your podcast.
Most important than all about your space, where are you in relation to your guest or cohost?
In Diary of a CEO, Stephen Bartlett sits his guest at one of the table while he sits at the other. Their physical relationship has a barrier placed between and they’re face-on with eachother, creating a relationship that is conducive to a standard interview. On Stephen’s side, he usually has the books or products of the guest beside them, signifying he is read on the subject and his questions are backed up by his reading on who he is interviewing.
Joe Rogan also uses a table, but the space is decorated with all sorts of props and gimmicks. He also keeps those guest materials close to him, and the relationship is largely the same. But the nature and decor of the space creates a much more relaxed environment, more like you’re in someone’s home, creating that more lax conversational atmosphere.
Finally, with Peter Crouch’s podcast, guests are never sat face-on with the host, typically they sit in a semi-circle formation opposing the camera. This plays out like sitting around a table in a restaurant or at the bar, inviting a relationship that is a whole lot more casual and everyone is on an equal footing conversation-wise. Power-dynamics are a lot more symmetrical.
With all these things considered, round back to the underlying question, “what value does your podcast provide?”
Knowing your niche audience, two-pronged objective and level of formality, it becomes immediately more obvious what value your podcast provides within the vast number of other podcasts out there.
Knowing these allows you to have a base by which your podcast can succeed over all the others in the digital world.
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